Matt Diggity Reveals How ONE Book He STUPIDLY Threw In The Trash Saved Him From A Catastrophic Booze & Drugs Meltdown...

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TERRY: Matt, thank you for joining me today.

For people unfamiliar with your work in SEO and online entrepreneurship, can you give us a brief snapshot of who you are, what you are doing today and the big projects that you are working on?

MATT: My name is Matt Diggity and I have a blog called diggitymarketing.com where I blog about SEO techniques and what not.

Through and through, I am pretty much an affiliate marketing SEO – that’s where I mostly focus my energy on.

So, I have this affiliate marketing agency called Leadspring, where I am dedicated to designing, building and monetizing affiliate websites.

I also have a client-facing agency called The Search Initiative and a backlink service called Authority Builders and I am currently the host of the Chiang Mai SEO conference – we kicked it off a couple of years ago, so this is the third year this year [2019].

And I guess I am in the conference game too.

TERRY: Cool, very nice.

Now, I did a bit of an intro earlier, explaining what the points of this project about “Inflection points” are.

And it was timely Matt, that you wrote about this recently on Facebook and it was for me a ‘light bulb moment’ and confirmation that you would be great to get on here to talk to.

So, you had a big inflection point in your life where you completely changed everything that you were doing – you left a job and all of that [career].

And the point of this interview, this video and podcast is to really dig deep into that moment [of massive change].

I know the ‘moment’ might have lasted for several months before it all came together.

So could you just give us some background on the ‘before’ your big turning point and your emotional state and where you were at in your life then.

MATT: Let’s rewind back to about the 2007 -2009 era.

I am an electrical engineer and [in my case] that means I went to UC San Diego. 

MATT: I’ve got a Bachelor’s degree and then a Master’s degree, I had decided to study electrical engineering.

This isn’t like ‘how to install a ceiling fan’ engineering or electricity.

It’s like how to design semiconductors, microchips, circuits and stuff like that.

TERRY: How long were you at the university for?

MATT: Yeah, Bachelor’s was four years and then Master‘s was two years.

TERRY: OK, 6 years of your life.

MATT: Yeah, this was a solid 6 years and I don’t even want to talk about how much that cost too!

But I made it through and became an engineer.

For a while of course at the beginning, it’s exciting for anyone who’s just getting out of college and just learning that ‘hey, I can survive like a normal human being out in the world’. 

But 6-7 years of doing the same thing, eventually evolved to looking like this, I’ll just give you the run through on my basic day:

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  • wake up at 6 o’clock in the morning
  • check my email and find out how many disasters happened overnight
  • get up
  • brush my teeth
  • take a shower etc
  • commute an hour to go to the client’s site, I was working for a software company. The software was expensive – for one year, one license was $300,000. So, basically, you get some awesome support
  • at the the client’s site, I had an office and I am set up there to do whatever these guys asked me to do
  • all day long you’re fighting firefights, these [client’s] engineers, they are on a strict schedule. They’ve got to get their microchips done e.g. there is a new iPhone coming out, they have to create the video processors that goes in it, so, they are under the gun and they are taking it out on the vendors [like me] all day long. So, this stuff is complicated – it’s complicated engineering, it’s complicated software, everything breaks all the time. So, it’s just day after day – stress, stress, stress 
  • that continues until about 8:30 – 9:00 p.m. So, I have already been working for about 12 to 14 hours, go home, drive home – another hour commute, try to get some dinner, maybe watch TV for half an hour, go to bed, wake up and do it again. 

So, this is what is was like over and over again.

And I am getting paid more.

I am getting more responsibilities, but there is no time to enjoy anything.

Eventually, when I really knew it hit me – this is a crazy moment:

I was in Subway, ordering a sandwich and I was just watching the person making it and I was like pretty sure this person in their job is happier than I am.

Like, I guarantee that’s the case. So, at that moment I realized…

“all day long you’re fighting firefights…day after day,
stress, stress, stress”

TERRY: …Matt, just to interrupt there – was everybody else in your social circle – to varying degrees – on a similar kind of ‘conveyor belt’ in life, the people around you?

MATT: Yeah, for sure. 

I mean I’ve had evidence of some people doing it another way – my father was an entrepreneur, I’ve had a couple of friends who were entrepreneurs. 

But I had been through the conveyor belt completely – from education until where I was now so I’ve had very little evidence about anything else. 

Everybody was on this train. 

Other people can stomach it better than others. 

Especially the poor folks that were over [in the US] on working visas from overseas. 

They had to live this lifestyle or else it’s time to go back home and your salary’s cut into a tenth of what it is right now. 

So, this is just the way it was in this field and I am sure it is in a lot of other fields as well. So, eventually…

TERRY: …sorry, Matt, just to understand – and how long was this going on for? 

MATT: I graduated college at least around 2003, or something. 

So, it was going on for at least 6 years.  

At least 6 years, I would say towards the tail, three is when I started to really notice that it was not worth it. 

I mean, in the beginning there was money and fulfilling your dream and buying a house and you just sacrifice and all that. 

But then at a certain point you just start to realize like (that) even if I am making more money, there is no time to even enjoy it. 

I did also start to realize that I wasn’t the kind of person that ‘things’ made me happy. 

I couldn’t buy a BMW and put a smile on my face – it’s just didn’t work on me. 

So, then it [my life] started to really crumble down and I made that application [to work for] for Subway Sandwich – no, I am just kidding, never did that!

TERRY: For me, and I talk about this with some people here quite often – one of the best things about financial freedom is actually the things you can subtract from your life, not the [material] ‘stuff’ that you can add

You can subtract the shitty job or horrible boss, or meaningless work, or living somewhere you don’t want to. 

You can remove those from your life if you’ve got some financial freedom. 

So, I know exactly what you mean. 

“even if I am making more money,
there is no time to even enjoy it”

MATT: Yeah, and I can also add on to that and say, you know like, financial freedom – you can’t buy your way into happiness, but the absence of stress about having enough money can make you very happy. 

It’s just not having to worry about this and that and whether I can purchase that or this. 

TERRY: Yeah, and where you were working, Matt, probably the property prices were crazy high and you have to go into like a 20 or 30 year loan and being stressed about that as well?

MATT: Oh, yeah, San Diego, California, for sure. 

I ended up buying my house right around the [price] peak before the crash too. 

So, I went through that whole circumstance as well. 

So, yeah, I definitely had all the boxes checked off for a complete mental breakdown.

TERRY: Right. 

MATT: Yeah, so eventually, when it started to get really dark, I eventually just didn’t really have a solution on my hand. 

I didn’t know what to do. 

So, the only thing I really ended up doing was medicating myself. 

On the weekends, I would just party my ass off. 

Thank goodness in some sense, that I did have an awesome social circle. 

I did have things that I love doing. 

I was really into the music culture – dancing, stuff like that and I’ve had great time, but I was partying hard every weekend. 

And building towards a quiet dependency on both alcohol and substances. 

So I had some stints where I was taking opiates for six months at a time, day after day. 

It got really rough, really dark at the worst point. 

I never really thought I’ve had any kind of problem with drugs or alcohol or anything. 

But one day, it was like a Monday, and I woke up, and I’ve just realized I had no idea how I got to Monday.

I don’t know what I did Saturday, Sunday and Friday when I started the week. 

I kept zero recollection of… it’s like three days have just gone.

And for me that lack of control and that ‘how did things get to this level’ just freaked me out and I remember that day, just crying my head off, calling my family, “I don’t know what to do, I am just completely lost”. 

I went to the hospital. 

They were like, “there’s nothing wrong with you, you are just freaking out”. 

But that was my big breakdown and that was when it was time to start to really take a look at my life and build myself from the ground up.

TERRY: You think that was your lowest point, Matt?

MATT: Oh, yeah, absolutely. 

Yeah, it was 24 hours of just waterworks, it just wouldn’t stop. 

And half of it was just this binge that I went on but on top of it was just that I knew even after I made myself feel better, I would still have the reality of my situation and what I was doing with my career and just not feeling fulfilled.

TERRY: And I think what you are talking about there, Matt, proves perfectly how that old school model of university, paid job, the career, the house and all of that, it just doesn’t work.

It’s a broken model. 

And we’ll get to that a bit more when you talk about one of the key triggers for your turning point. 

But it took us a long time to wake up to the fact that that model is broken and it just doesn’t make us happy. 

It [generally] doesn’t give us fulfillment or contentment and it just doesn’t work. 

MATT: Yeah, and that’s not to say it doesn’t work for anybody. 

I mean, I see a lot of friends and family that are doing their thing in the traditional model and very fulfilled but it’s just, maybe in my specific situation, it’s just didn’t work for me. 

That was definitely the bottom and it was time for change at that point. 

“the absence of stress about having
enough money can make you very happy”

TERRY: And, so you hit the lowest point and for some people, it might not be for everybody, you have to reach that stage where it can’t get any worse.

It’s that wake-up call where anything, any change is going to be for the better because it’s just not sustainable to go forward with the old way.

MATT: Absolutely.

TERRY: So you hit this low point, you had this big kind of emotional meltdown and that triggered this desire for a huge kind of change and rethink in your life.

Can you talk through us about how that then came about?

MATT: Yeah, so the biggest change that I’ve had in my life was career and business related.

But before that point it was time to really build myself up as a human being again.

After this whole experience, I don’t know if you’ve ever had one of these times in life when something just terrible happened to you.

And like maybe someone really close to you has just died and you feel like you can’t even make eye contact with people.

That’s how I felt.

Like I felt there was something flawed inside me.

So, I really started working from the ground up.

On a spiritual and physical level, I really started getting into yoga.

On a personal development level, I started reading a lot more than I already did which was already a lot, but reading a lot of personal development books.

Also joining Landmark Forum where you learn about personal development, public speaking, taking on projects, integrity, all that kind of stuff.

I went through that whole program.

Аnd then eventually I sort of felt good about myself and absolutely quit drinking, period, quit doing everything for like a year and then after that I felt like, “OK, I am happier”.

I still had this problem with my career but at least my mental state wasn’t like a big up and down all the time.

[Now it] looked like a nice flat stable line.

Then at that point I started to look into alternatives to making money.

And I remember at this juncture one of my friends, his name’s David Collier.

I hope he can see this.

He handed me The 4-Hour Work Week which is a very pivotal book in my life and probably when  you heard me talking about this this time in my life, I was giving a thank you to Tim Ferriss, the author of that book, who was  pretty much the catalyst for all the change.

TERRY: Cool.

So, I think from what I read on Facebook Matt, you’d read the book but you put it away for a while and didn’t necessarily act on it immediately.

It wasn’t like you  just finished the book, closed it, and immediately set about all these projects to financially transform your life.

MATT: It was even worse.

I actually threw it away.

I got the book.

The title was just insulting “The 4-hour workweek”?

Come on, man!

I’m talking:  ‘I’m used to 60-80 hour-work weeks and I still don’t have what I want’.

You know, like so it just didn’t work for me at that point in time.

But eventually there was no going back.

I just had to, I had to explore.

I saw him being happy, him as an entrepreneur and eventually I started giving it a read and I think it was like a one 24-hour-read or maybe a 48-hour-read.

I was just so clued in and [the book] made so much sense to me that there was a different way of doing things.

You can leverage the internet, you can take your skills instead of at a local level and apply it to the rest of the world.

You have a bigger reach.

You have more tools at your hands to reach these people and deliver what your skill is or your product or your idea is than you ever did before in the history of the world.

Just like, ‘OK, yeah, that makes a lot of sense’.

And there’s case studies that really struck a chord with me as well.

But I think a really major turning point with the book was that I decided to go to these meetup.com meet ups.

There was one called, ‘The 4-Hour Work Week Book Club’ and they would meet every week and they would talk about a chapter or a section of the book and really discuss what it means to them.

And then also their projects.

So, what are they working on that’s fulfilling their life’s passion.

What is their passion project.

I’m seeing all these people that are doing all this interesting stuff that I’ve never even thought of before.

So, there is a guy that basically bought different computer components and put them together and sold it as a package flight simulator training for would-be pilots and stuff like that.

OK, that sounds like something that is novel.

I’ve never thought about it before but it’s definitely doable and I kept seeing these examples over and over again and then it just made me decide to jump in and try myself.

Now at this point in time, everyone was doing this course called The 30-day Challenge by a marketer called Ed Dale.

And what it was, they would send you an email every day that’ll give you a simple instruction on how to build a website, get ranked higher on Google and then monetize it – basically search engine optimization and affiliate marketing.

And that’s what I did.

That’s what everyone was doing.

That’s what I jumped into doing.

And I fell in love with it and the rest is history.

“I’m used to 60-80 hour-work weeks

& I still don’t have what I want”

TERRY: It’s a very rich book and different people get different things from it.

For me, the key wasn’t so much about working 4 hours a week, because I’m sure you don’t work 4 hours a week and I know I definitely don’t.

But that’s not the point.

For me, the big reveal in that book is the internationalization of Internet business and how you can use the power, for example, of Western currency in a country, for example, like we (WPX) are in Bulgaria and the costs of doing business here and the cost of living is ridiculously low compared to Australia where I’m from or UK, US.

So that’s why here it’s kind of a mini-Silicon Valley and all the big software companies are here.

And, for example, WPX has about 60 staff at the moment and if we were operating in Australia we could’ve probably afford to have about five or eight, something like that.

Our staff are very well paid and they get a lot of really good benefits.

We go skydiving and scuba diving, all sorts of cool stuff.

But when you really get your head around the idea that if you have income from a Western source, but your living expenses and [business] expenses are in a country with a much lower cost base, you know it’s pretty revolutionary at an individual level.

MATT: Absolutely, absolutely.

That was a big game changer for me and that whole concept of ‘geo arbitrage’ and it inspired me to start travelling in the first place.

I’d been a fairly seasoned traveller, I’ve been to Europe once and to Japan a couple of times.

But I mean, at this point I’m always travelling.

I live in Thailand now and I’m usually, I would say 60 percent of the time in a different country.

This is just my base.

Yes, it’s amazing the concept of geo arbitrage and [here’s] another one I got from it:

Being smart about your time, knowing how do you really take information diets and make sure that the work you’re doing is effective work, just all of it altogether was brilliant and yeah, like for sure I don’t work  a 4 hour work week.

But I also don’t think I work any hours in a week anymore because I love what I’m doing and that’s because it’s mine, it’s my baby, I’ve crafted it this way and I think that one of the great benefits of entrepreneurship is: if you can create something you love, you never have to work another day in your life.

TERRY: Yeah, exactly. 

And you know, for me the whole concept of being an entrepreneur is not even necessarily about money but it’s about being a ‘change agent’. 

So, for example, very briefly here in Eastern Europe, I have a dog foundation for shelter/homeless dogs and I’m applying a lot of these entrepreneurial and start-up principles to disrupt the old broken way [of managing shelter/homeless dogs] and replacing it with a much smarter, much better [life] for the dogs. 

It’s not about money but it’s about just changing a broken thing and replacing it with something that works an awful lot better.

MATT: Excellent. 

TERRY: So, Matt, when you were in this transition into mobile entrepreneurship and the lights were coming on for for the potential of all of that, what was your very first project that got traction?

It was working, you made some money from it and you could say ‘wow, this is a real thing’ and a whole potentially different life could come about here. 

What was that first project that worked like that?

MATT: I made an affiliate website that was reviewing kneeling chairs

Kneeling chairs – they’re funky looking, there is one sitting over there [in my room now]. 

And whenever my friends come over to visit there were like “what the heck is that thing?”

But it’s like an ergonomic chair for your back. 

And this website that I created was just a typical affiliate review website: “here’s the top five kneeling chairs”, something like that. 

And I got it making two thousand dollars a month. 

It wasn’t nearly close enough to replace my engineering salary but enough to live on and travel and have time and location freedom in my life. 

So that was enough for me! 

And at that point in time, I’d sold everything, I sold the condo that I owned, I sold all my furniture, got rid of 90 percent of my clothes, all my junk and then just took a one way ticket to Thailand in one bag and just started really living my life at that point in time.

“entrepreneurship is creating something you love
so you never have to ‘work’ another day in your life”

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TERRY: How was that feeling on the day that you resigned?

MATT: Oh, God, so good. 

So, the day before, at this point in time,it wasn’t going that good at the business as well.

I remember because I had gone through all this stuff and I had studied yoga and all this. 

There’s that. 

There was a Skype meeting for the business and there I was to the meeting earlier and they were already chatting and they didn’t know I had joined the meeting and this one dude was messaging this other dude, there were like, [sarcastically] “I wonder when the yoga master is going to join”. 

They were talking shit on me. 

So, I was just like “OK, all right, these motherfuckers”, right. 

I quit the same day and at that point I had a reason and I was just super fulfilled to let go of that. 

My boss understood. 

He knew that I was burnt out. 

I was pissed off at the culture and stuff like that. 

So, it’s just really relieving. 

I wouldn’t say that I was a 100 percent like “peace out, I’m completely chill now”. 

There was a sense that I could eventually just be homeless on the street.

I just gave up this career that I’d spent six years studying for and six more years working in and I basically burned the bridge on that. 

There is always a sense that if I don’t make this work out that I could be homeless and I don’t know if I’m being really extreme and dramatic about it but that’s how the brain works. 

You think of the worst-case situation: when will I run out of money and when will I have to come crawling back and when will I have to beg for a job again and be embarrassed and all that. 

And that definitely entered my head. 

But still the whole situation was so bleak for me, despite all these voices saying “what you’re about to do, stupid”, still didn’t matter. 

I still had to move forward. 

There was no sustainability [in the old job].

TERRY: And I think that physical fear that you’ve just talked about, that removal of the security, the people who don’t make that step to escape a miserable existence, sorry of put it so harshly, Matt, but I think you can safely say that there people who don’t do that. 

I think that particular physical tangible fear of the removal of that security is one of the big blocks to doing that. 

And if you really think about it, I don’t know your family situation or anything, but even if your first or second or third little project didn’t work out, you probably would have family or someone and it wouldn’t have been like a complete train wreck that you necessarily couldn’t recover from. 

My point is that the fear of the thing is probably worse than how it would turn out for most people who do have a bit of a support system.

MATT: Yeah, you create the worst scenario in your head. 

I literally got up a spreadsheet and I calculated up all my assets and then I calculated: ‘OK, if I really went into low spending mode in a 3rd world country or somewhere where I’d want to live but really went into ‘like a shell’ mode where I was barely making any money, how long could I last for? 

And I think it turned out to be – I would run out of money when I’m 63 [years old] if I never made a single penny [more]. 

And still I was like, I don’t know if I can do it. 

I mean what does it take? 

But this is the ego. 

This is your brain telling you to be safe and good luck overriding that.

TERRY: Yeah, exactly. And it can take something a bit drastic to just go screw it I’m going to do it anyway cause I just I just can’t go on with the old way of doing it.

MATT: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

TERRY: So just to set up a bit of a timeframe, Matt, when did you leave your job and transition into a mobile entrepreneur, global entrepreneur. 

When did that happen? 

How long ago? 

MATT:  About 2011, I quit the job, it took about six months to like sell my crap, sell my car, but after that it was just: a one way ticket to Thailand, one bag and I didn’t know anybody in Thailand at the time. 

I’d travelled there before and I knew people are so friendly here that I would meet friends on the way. 

I wouldn’t worry about that.

TERRY: It’s great.

MATT: Yes, it was great. 

But, yeah, that’s what I loved about Thailand. 

It was just, it’s so free. 

Like, I didn’t, I didn’t have a reservation. 

I didn’t have an apartment booked or anything. 

I just had my bag and I knew I’d be fine. 

So, then, I just came over here and just started to get to know the area. 

Eventually I got my things that I needed – a driver’s license, you know – all the basic things that a human needs in a new place to live – where would I go grocery shopping, which is as all super fun. 

And then when I felt like it, I would do some work and eventually I just started growing and scaling my SEO  business.

TERRY: And how long had you been in Thailand for when you first moved over there before it was obvious that this was all going to work. 

The project was going to work for the many [smaller] projects within it and you felt secure and you’ve gone through it and now it was all going to be good. 

Did it take a while?

MATT: Yeah, well, I feel like with SEO, there’s varying degrees of that. 

I just still don’t even think I’m like 100 percent good. 

That’s just the nature of SEO and this feeling it can just vanish any time. 

But I would say like when I’ve got to make in about 10,000 USD a month, I was not only exceeding what I’ve thought would be enough for me. 

I’d only wanted 5,000 USD a month and I was going to be happy, I was fine with that. 

But then when I got to ten and I was just like “OK, now we are challenging the engineering salary I had before”. 

We’re getting about the same level. 

This is nothing that I have expected. 

So, I definitely feel like I am at a comfortable level. 

But still, I am still super afraid of going back to working myself to death that I remember being in one business venture with my friend Jason, and as we were scaling up and getting to a certain point.

I told him, “I am cool with getting us to 20,000 USD a month, but anything past that and I am going start pulling back, I am going to throw it all back, because I just don’t want to live that kind of life. 

But it turns out that because you are your own boss, because you are an entrepreneur and you can create your company culture, you can create your business to operate anyway you want, you can build in as many efficiencies as you want –  hire the right people. 

It’s not painful like it was before. 

That’s the beauty of entrepreneurship. 

TERRY: Yeah, and I think for me, the way I think of it is, and I don’t know that enough people get this, is that you are now the architect of your life.

It’s your responsibility. 

Like the architect of a house or any kind of building.

It’s you. 

That’s a tremendous privilege and opportunity if you recognize it and don’t just get into a pattern of helpless victimhood where you want to blame the government or blame your parents or whatever for your upbringing or absent parents or whatever the case might be. 

In the present moment now, you are the architect, so you decide, like you said there, I don’t want to go up bigger than that because that’s just going to be a lot of stress and management and all of that stuff and believe me I know well the struggle between entrepreneurship and management – two very, very different things.

So I think, one of the underlying things that I want to get into this whole [InflectionPoint.life] project including with this talk with you, Matt, is to really fully embrace this idea of:

“You are the architect of your life and you can design it exactly the way that you want”.

It may not work exactly as you’ve planned initially, don’t give up on that.

Just find a different way. 

And one of the biggest mistakes of my entrepreneurial life was with my first project online, this was like 1998-1999, and you can imagine what the Internet looked like at that time – it was pretty weird, pretty strange compared to now.

All of my emotional attachment to success was tied up to that [one] specific product and when that product did not succeed at the scale I wanted, I was kind of really crushed by that and it actually took me a few years to get over, I am a bit embarrassed to say.

And I think really, the entrepreneur’s loyalty is to their success [not a specific product].

And I don’t necessarily just mean financial, I mean like what you have, the architect of your own life, living the way that you want to live at the scale that you want to live.

And in many ways it just turned out that I happen to be founder of a WordPress hosting company ,for example, but as I say to my partners here, I could easily be doing many other very different kinds of online business or even offline business, provided it was on my own terms and designed in a way that suited my personality and was really fulfilling and satisfying.

MATT: Yeah. Yeah, that’s great.

I’ve known you for a while in the SEO industry and all of a sudden this hosting company called WPX pops up that everyone’s fanatical about and then Terry Kyle is the owner!

It’s just I didn’t expect it but I was not surprised.

TERRY: Me neither at all.

So, Matt, after this big change in your life when you moved to Thailand and all of that, were there any other significant turning points you’ve had in that like eight years – nine years since that time.

Kind of along the way things, where it was going in a particular direction, you mentioned one about scaling back on a business you didn’t want it to kind of turn into a monster that ruled your life, which is awesome.

You know, having the wisdom to see that.

Did you have any other kind of things that affected you and kind of made you rethink things on the way.

MATT: Yes.

So, this whole idea of throttling the scaling was completely tossed out the window too.

That was a mental block in my own head about the only way to really be successful is to work hard and work in an environment that you hate because that was just my experience in it.

But you know, like learning more about business development, learning more about management, team building, building a culture, all that kind of stuff, now I get the best of both worlds.

I get to grow businesses that scale.

And at the same time I found a new love and passion which is creating a company culture and bringing other people along with me which is a way more fulfilling journey than just working alone.

So now I have multiple businesses where I have partnerships, I’m seeing people develop, I’m seeing people become more successful in themselves, find freedom in themselves.

I mean one of my businesses Leadspring, I have a business partner named Jay, and  Jay, we met when he was a V.A. from the Philippines making a couple dollars an hour, building link wheels on this very mundane task, so, he’s my business partner now and he’s doing amazingly successful.

So that’s way more fulfilling than any of this has been so far in the first place.

That’s what I’m really excited about now.

And the cool thing about it is I think it’s a never-ending journey.

Like, even if I hit my levels of what I want to achieve there’s no end, there’s no cap to how successful and how happy I want my friends to be.

And so, I have a project that will last me for the rest of my life which is a nice thing to think about.

“entrepreneurship is the skill to have
in the 21st century”

TERRY: Awesome.

Yeah, here in our company, the average age of our department heads is 24 years old.

Even our software development head is 24.

And when I was 24, I could barely write my name in the dirt with a stick, but these guys are amazing at 24.

They’re just incredible.

So, I know what you mean – building those teams and seeing them really blossom, you know, it’s great.

So, Matt apart from “The 4-Hour Work Week”, obviously, have you got a book at the moment that anybody watching or listening to this talk now, you think they really should read – will really help them, got a favorite at the moment?

MATT: I’ve a few favorites but the pertinent one that really hit a home run is called End Of Jobs [by Taylor Pearson].

It’s a book that gives statistics and reasoning quantitative and qualitative logic behind why entrepreneurship is the skill to have in the 21st century, as we go on to these changing technologies, changing environment, everything is getting automated.

It’s not a good idea to be in the 9-5 rat race or you’re becoming obsolete.

So, entrepreneurship is a real skill.

And if you’re already an entrepreneur, it’s awesome to read it just because it’s very nice justification that you’re doing the right thing.

That’s an awesome book.

It’ll pump you up.

TERRY: Cool, cool.

Brilliant stuff.

So is there any final really important message that you’d really like to get through to anybody who’s kind of stuck and may be in a dark place like you were, Matt, you know watching or listening to this, any kind of final advice because you’ve lived it man, you’ve got the experience there to talk about it, one kind of key takeaway for them.

MATT: I think one of the biggest objections that might be going on in your mind ‘is it possible to leave my job to break up with this person, to quit doing this. 

Is it possible or maybe is it just too hard for me?’

So, my argument is that – what you’re already doing is harder than that thing.

Like for me, doing electrical engineering and working in crazy complicated software is millions of times more complicated and abstract and ridiculously technical than starting a business small and doing something simple and getting good at it and learning business by yourself.

It’s just on a literal level, just the stuff you’re doing already is harder.

Forget about the emotional and all that stuff but it’s harder for sure.

TERRY: And as you touched on earlier, Matt, we have never been in human history at a point where it’s been easier and faster and cheaper and even free to create a business with value on the Web that delivers for its customers.

If you think back to the pre-internet time and if you want to have a shop or a cafe or something like that, you’ve got to sign a lease for five years, come up with all this stuff, borrow a crazy amount of money, go into debt, buy furniture, all this sort of stuff, and a lot of those businesses obviously just go bankrupt.

So now the barrier to entry is so low, almost non-existent, depending on what you’re doing.

Now it’s a golden age – it’s a great time to embrace it and get in there.

MATT: Yeah, absolutely.

I couldn’t agree more.

And “End of Jobs” talks about all these different ways – that’s exactly what you’re saying, like: OK, you want to start an e-commerce business.

OK, well Amazon will ship it for you.

We want to teach some people.

Well, there’s then you to me right now that will host my whole content.

It’s all just laid out for us very simply and affordably.

TERRY: Just to finish off Matt, can you just give us a quick reminder of the main websites where people can catch up with you –  Facebook groups where they can hook up with you and learn more from you about you, your services and all of that stuff.

MATT: diggitymarketing.com is my SEO blog which is also kind of like the hub that will lead you to various services and conferences, events that I’m throwing and stuff like that.

And if you want to just chitchat, go find me on Twitter: Matt Diggity SEO.

TERRY: Brilliant.

The thing that I did love to hear today Matt and actually I didn’t quite expect it and it’ll be interesting to see when I talk to some other guys as well, but your honesty and openness today about your dark period, really courageous and I really appreciate it.

Good.

Really good stuff.

MATT: Thanks man. It’s my therapy too. So, thank you.

TERRY: Matt, thank you.

And maybe at some point in the future we’ll hook up for another discussion about a related topic, but this is awesome today and again a massive thank you.

MATT: The pleasure’s mine. Thanks so much. 

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